Comments on: Tri-Nations v. Six Nations: Where Does Argentina Fit? http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/ Straightforward rugby commentary from a North American perspective Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:48:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Dan D http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-3968 Dan D Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:02:00 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-3968 Argentina can definatley compete with any side in the world, they beat France twice in their own world cup, they bottled it against South Africa, but if they played in the tri nations they would soon fit in very comfortabley and i'm sure have the quality to win it. Argentina can definatley compete with any side in the world, they beat France twice in their own world cup, they bottled it against South Africa, but if they played in the tri nations they would soon fit in very comfortabley and i’m sure have the quality to win it.

]]> By: Josh Houston http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-828 Josh Houston Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:55:59 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-828 Yeah I just read that. Better for them. They all play in Europe and they have a very realistic shot to win. Plus some good matchups between Argentina, France, Ireland and Scotland. You know France wants pay back and I'm sure Ireland and Scotland would like another crack at them. Yeah I just read that. Better for them. They all play in Europe and they have a very realistic shot to win. Plus some good matchups between Argentina, France, Ireland and Scotland. You know France wants pay back and I’m sure Ireland and Scotland would like another crack at them.

]]> By: Vic http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-825 Vic Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:43:59 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-825 Looks like it's the <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7084062.stm" target="blank" rel="nofollow">6 Nations for now</a>. Looks like it’s the 6 Nations for now.

]]> By: Omar http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-768 Omar Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:17:53 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-768 Yes Josh, spot on. If these smaller rugby nations are ever to mount a serious challenge then we need to strengthen now. It will take much time and effort and we probably wouldn't see solid results until the 2015 World Cup, but we need to get the ball roling now. The great thing about world rugby is that every nation has their own unique style of play which has served a tradition, like South Africa with their power, the French with their unpredictability, the Welsh with their flair and so on. The Pacific Islanders played some superb rugby, but lacked both the fitness and experience to take them further than Fiji's last 8 showing. Argentina were the closest, but despite their brave efforts, it was quite evident that they just lacked that experience and edge which they could have gained from regular competitive matches prior to the world cup. The gap is big, but 10 years ago it was bigger. The next 10 years will be critical in the development of rugby - how much longer will it be before we can finally go into a world cup without predicting the same 2 or 3 winners? Let's see. Yes Josh, spot on. If these smaller rugby nations are ever to mount a serious challenge then we need to strengthen now. It will take much time and effort and we probably wouldn’t see solid results until the 2015 World Cup, but we need to get the ball roling now. The great thing about world rugby is that every nation has their own unique style of play which has served a tradition, like South Africa with their power, the French with their unpredictability, the Welsh with their flair and so on. The Pacific Islanders played some superb rugby, but lacked both the fitness and experience to take them further than Fiji’s last 8 showing. Argentina were the closest, but despite their brave efforts, it was quite evident that they just lacked that experience and edge which they could have gained from regular competitive matches prior to the world cup.

The gap is big, but 10 years ago it was bigger. The next 10 years will be critical in the development of rugby - how much longer will it be before we can finally go into a world cup without predicting the same 2 or 3 winners? Let’s see.

]]> By: Josh Houston http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-764 Josh Houston Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:13:30 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-764 I agree with you Omar that the goal should be to make the World Cup more competetive. Both the 6 Nations and Tri Nations should be opened up to other teams so that teams like Fiji, Somoa, Tonga, Portugal, Romania and Georgia will become better through fierce competition with better rugby nations. This way in the 2011 World Cup yu won't have one "pool of death" where there are 3 very good teams in one pool and only 2 in the other 3. I'm all for competition and I love seeing small nations like the ones above grow into contenders. After a boring WC final, I think we need more competition. I thought the Pacific Island nations played some of the most exciting matches in the pool stages. I agree with you Omar that the goal should be to make the World Cup more competetive. Both the 6 Nations and Tri Nations should be opened up to other teams so that teams like Fiji, Somoa, Tonga, Portugal, Romania and Georgia will become better through fierce competition with better rugby nations.

This way in the 2011 World Cup yu won’t have one “pool of death” where there are 3 very good teams in one pool and only 2 in the other 3. I’m all for competition and I love seeing small nations like the ones above grow into contenders. After a boring WC final, I think we need more competition. I thought the Pacific Island nations played some of the most exciting matches in the pool stages.

]]> By: Omar http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-762 Omar Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:04:57 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-762 Hmm, interesting points you make there Gabby, however, I don't think that mini tours and stand-alone games will be enough to keep the Argentines satisfied. I think they deserve to be as part of a major tournement as a mark of respect for a nation that has come such a long way. They may have the ability to beat France, Australia and England in one off games, but Argentina want to be at a level where they are competing with these teams consistantly year after year. Look at how Italy have progressed - quite something really, considering they were the whipping boys just 5 years ago, now they pose a real threat to whoever they meet. If we want to grow rugby as a global game, then surely my suggestion of the 7 Nations and a newly formed European cup makes perfect sense, doesn't it? European teams have the interest, they just need the competition - the pacific Islands have the will, but they don't get supplied with the opposition on a regular basis, meaning that these 'minnows' of world rugby are in for a shock every 4 years, and to be honest, it's not fun seeing NZ beat Portugal by over 100 points - this isn't cricket. Imagine if Tonga, Samoa, Argentina and Fiji were on a closer level to the 'big three' of the south. And also imagine if nations such as Georgia, Portugal and Romania were on a similar par to Wales and Scotland. The Rugby World cup would be a real spectacle, harder to predict and more competitive. The only teams that were capable of winning the 2007 world cup were NZ (who choked, AGAIN), France (only because they were the hosts) and SA, who peaked perfectly in time. The Soccer world cup has 10 different teams that are capable of winning it every 4 years - why? because it's global. Hmm, interesting points you make there Gabby, however, I don’t think that mini tours and stand-alone games will be enough to keep the Argentines satisfied. I think they deserve to be as part of a major tournement as a mark of respect for a nation that has come such a long way. They may have the ability to beat France, Australia and England in one off games, but Argentina want to be at a level where they are competing with these teams consistantly year after year. Look at how Italy have progressed - quite something really, considering they were the whipping boys just 5 years ago, now they pose a real threat to whoever they meet. If we want to grow rugby as a global game, then surely my suggestion of the 7 Nations and a newly formed European cup makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? European teams have the interest, they just need the competition - the pacific Islands have the will, but they don’t get supplied with the opposition on a regular basis, meaning that these ‘minnows’ of world rugby are in for a shock every 4 years, and to be honest, it’s not fun seeing NZ beat Portugal by over 100 points - this isn’t cricket. Imagine if Tonga, Samoa, Argentina and Fiji were on a closer level to the ‘big three’ of the south. And also imagine if nations such as Georgia, Portugal and Romania were on a similar par to Wales and Scotland. The Rugby World cup would be a real spectacle, harder to predict and more competitive. The only teams that were capable of winning the 2007 world cup were NZ (who choked, AGAIN), France (only because they were the hosts) and SA, who peaked perfectly in time. The Soccer world cup has 10 different teams that are capable of winning it every 4 years - why? because it’s global.

]]> By: Gabriel http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-683 Gabriel Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:49:26 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-683 The strange thing is, Argentina seem to have improved without the need to compete in one of these tounaments. And when you see the lack of quality play involved in both hemispheres supposed top competitions, you wonder what kind of effect they have on the gameplay itself. Having stand-alone games and mini tours seems to be doing ok by the Pumas, so maybe there is something that everyone - and most notably the IRB - is missing... The strange thing is, Argentina seem to have improved without the need to compete in one of these tounaments. And when you see the lack of quality play involved in both hemispheres supposed top competitions, you wonder what kind of effect they have on the gameplay itself. Having stand-alone games and mini tours seems to be doing ok by the Pumas, so maybe there is something that everyone - and most notably the IRB - is missing…

]]> By: Gabriel http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-682 Gabriel Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:41:37 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-682 "What a load of rubbish, this from the same lot of fools that wanted South Africa thrown out of the Tri-Nations two years ago because we weren't competitive enough." Maybe SANZAR would be better off disbanding and throwing the weak Australians out and incorporating the Pumas into the Tri-Nations instead, then we would have proper rugby again - like the old adage goes - the forwards win games the backs decide by how much. "The Aussies can't win because they don't have forwards! As proved by the runners up in the World Cup when their forwards decimated Australia in the quarters! Let them go play league - we want real rugby to stay!" Australian rugby chief John O'Neill tried to get rid of Argentina. He said. "Close to home we have a big obligation to Fiji, Samoa and Tonga". Wow! Now that the IRB think of Argentina, all of a sudden Mr O'Neill thinks of the Pacific Island nations. But. The Pacific Nations are not number 3 in the world ranking. Mr O'Neil wants to help them with a visa, then be Australian and finally play for the Wallabies. Then he said. "the average age of their team is about 29 and we are not sure how much depth is coming through underneath". Okay. Let me think of an excuse to not accept the South Americans. MMM. Pumas are too old? 27/10/1979 Argentina 24 - Australia 13 31/10/1987 Argentina 19 - Australia 19 7/11/1987 Argentina 27 - Australia 19 8/11/1997 Argentina 18 - Australia 16 24/6/2000 Australia 32 - Argentina 25 24/6/2006 Argentina 19 - Nueva Zelanda 25 28/06/2003 Sudáfrica 26 - Argentina 25 5/11/2005 Argentina 23 - South Africa 34 Remember still there're Pumas playing amateur. Mmm. I would love to see a game Pumas vs Australia next week. Have you seen wallabies forwards? I think Georgia will give them a run. “What a load of rubbish, this from the same lot of fools that wanted South Africa thrown out of the Tri-Nations two years ago because we weren’t competitive enough.” Maybe SANZAR would be better off disbanding and throwing the weak Australians out and incorporating the Pumas into the Tri-Nations instead, then we would have proper rugby again - like the old adage goes - the forwards win games the backs decide by how much. “The Aussies can’t win because they don’t have forwards! As proved by the runners up in the World Cup when their forwards decimated Australia in the quarters! Let them go play league - we want real rugby to stay!”

Australian rugby chief John O’Neill tried to get rid of Argentina. He said. “Close to home we have a big obligation to Fiji, Samoa and Tonga”. Wow! Now that the IRB think of Argentina, all of a sudden Mr O’Neill thinks of the Pacific Island nations. But. The Pacific Nations are not number 3 in the world ranking. Mr O’Neil wants to help them with a visa, then be Australian and finally play for the Wallabies. Then he said. “the average age of their team is about 29 and we are not sure how much depth is coming through underneath”. Okay. Let me think of an excuse to not accept the South Americans. MMM. Pumas are too old? 27/10/1979 Argentina 24 - Australia 13 31/10/1987 Argentina 19 - Australia 19 7/11/1987 Argentina 27 - Australia 19 8/11/1997 Argentina 18 - Australia 16 24/6/2000 Australia 32 - Argentina 25 24/6/2006 Argentina 19 - Nueva Zelanda 25 28/06/2003 Sudáfrica 26 - Argentina 25 5/11/2005 Argentina 23 - South Africa 34 Remember still there’re Pumas playing amateur. Mmm. I would love to see a game Pumas vs Australia next week. Have you seen wallabies forwards? I think Georgia will give them a run.

]]> By: Omar http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-681 Omar Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:23:31 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-681 I agree with Josh. A whole new Southern Hemisphere tournement could be held, all teams playing each other just the once (as it is with the Six Nations). NZ Australia, SA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Argentina could combine to form a 7 Nations. It would be a great multi-cultural event which would strengthen four more hungry rugby nations. I also believe that a European Cup should be formed in place of the 6 Nations. There could be 16 teams to enter, four groups of four nations, with the top two from each group qualifying for the last eight knock out stage and so on. There are plenty of up and coming nations that are starving for competition such as Romania, Georgia, Portugal, Spain, Russia and so on. It will be hard, but over time the gap can be cut, as has been done with Italy and France entering the 5 and 6 nations, and more recently the world cup, where the so called 'minnows' played extremely well. All this would strengthen so many nations and make the World Cup a bigger and more competitive competition. I mean, let's face it - can any of you see any Nation lifting the Web Ellis trophy other than any of the previous winners? Maybe France, but that's it, for the near future anyway. I agree with Josh. A whole new Southern Hemisphere tournement could be held, all teams playing each other just the once (as it is with the Six Nations). NZ Australia, SA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Argentina could combine to form a 7 Nations. It would be a great multi-cultural event which would strengthen four more hungry rugby nations.

I also believe that a European Cup should be formed in place of the 6 Nations. There could be 16 teams to enter, four groups of four nations, with the top two from each group qualifying for the last eight knock out stage and so on. There are plenty of up and coming nations that are starving for competition such as Romania, Georgia, Portugal, Spain, Russia and so on. It will be hard, but over time the gap can be cut, as has been done with Italy and France entering the 5 and 6 nations, and more recently the world cup, where the so called ‘minnows’ played extremely well.

All this would strengthen so many nations and make the World Cup a bigger and more competitive competition. I mean, let’s face it - can any of you see any Nation lifting the Web Ellis trophy other than any of the previous winners? Maybe France, but that’s it, for the near future anyway.

]]> By: Josh Houston http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-478 Josh Houston Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:25:28 +0000 http://www.whatisrugby.com/2007/10/17/tri-nations-v-six-nations-where-does-argentina-fit/#comment-478 While agree with all that you said, I think it would be an insult solely based on the fact that Somoa, Fiji an Tonga are Pacific Island nations neighboring Australia and New Zealand. I think initially, Argentina would be just as competitive as the other (which wouldn't be very compettitive at all). While Argentina does have a better historical record, I think Fiji consistently gets better every year and I think Fiji would actually be more competitive than Argentina at first simply because they play NZ and Aus regularly. http://www.teivovo.com/history/index.html I think Argentine rugby will grow tremendously after their world cup campaign, but they do need to be in the Tri-Nations or Six Nations. But I think the three Pacific Island nations need to be in as well so their teams can get better. I simpy think the Pcific Island nations deserve to be their along with Argentina because of their location and history with NZ and Aus. And I would LOVE to see Argentina and Fiji play! (Fiji beat Argentina in 7's 22-14 in 2005 and lost in 15's 30-49 in 2003) While agree with all that you said, I think it would be an insult solely based on the fact that Somoa, Fiji an Tonga are Pacific Island nations neighboring Australia and New Zealand. I think initially, Argentina would be just as competitive as the other (which wouldn’t be very compettitive at all).

While Argentina does have a better historical record, I think Fiji consistently gets better every year and I think Fiji would actually be more competitive than Argentina at first simply because they play NZ and Aus regularly.

http://www.teivovo.com/history/index.html

I think Argentine rugby will grow tremendously after their world cup campaign, but they do need to be in the Tri-Nations or Six Nations. But I think the three Pacific Island nations need to be in as well so their teams can get better. I simpy think the Pcific Island nations deserve to be their along with Argentina because of their location and history with NZ and Aus.

And I would LOVE to see Argentina and Fiji play! (Fiji beat Argentina in 7’s 22-14 in 2005 and lost in 15’s 30-49 in 2003)

]]>